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Is joining gang/fleet safe?

Asked by [ Moderator ]

Is it possible for a gang member to get aggression and get a free kill on me in high-sec, or is it safe?

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4 answers

4

gah'matar [ Moderator ]

It used to be that gang mates could shoot each other without CONCORD intervention.

However, recently I was doing an L4 mission with a newer player and locked him to give him remote reps. He had auto target back enabled, locked me and accidentally shot me. Concord blew up the brand new Hurricane I'd loaned him. Much annoyance ensued.

Pretty sure they closed that because people were fleeting with newbies and then gang warping them to safe spots and killing them.

The forums appear to agree with that: thread on this from eve-search

NN comments
rashmika
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Hi, sorry for the necro but I was researching something and this tag was picked up. This answer is incorrect; you’ve never been able to shoot someone without consequence in high sec (at least as far back as 2006!) just because you’ve ganged with them. The thread you linked supports your answer, but only as far as the initial reply. Subsequent posts in that thread dispute in initial reply but not in a very clear way.

ecaf ersa
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The confusion is regarding the “Lofty” scam. This involved the mechanic that made fleet members valid targets if parties in the fleet were at war with each other. This was closed a while back thankfully.

ecaf ersa
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ah…which you already said lol

ecaf ersa
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but you are correct in that the accepted answer is incorrect – fleeting has never allowed aggression except where war was involved.

rashmika
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Yeah sorry, I was typing and spell checking in Word. I was actually looking for queries about stacking Gang Links and got rather side tracked :P

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9

rashmika [ Editor ]

This was very easy to do, once upon a time! This was commonly called a “Lofty” after the pod pilot who made it so famous. Back in 2006, if not earlier, when you joined a gang you’d get a popup warning you that doing so would make you a war target if any current or future member of the gang was involved in a Corporation war. However even back in 2006, you couldn’t simply shoot a gang member just because they were in a gang with you. You had to manipulate the games mechanics first!

This is where the Lofty came in. For example, someone would ask for help in local with a mission. Some deluded naive chap would agree to help and join the gang (I don’t think they were Fleets back then!). The chap would then warp to the “mission”, but was in fact typically warping to a safe spot; just before the pilot would drop out of warp, two more pilots would then be invited to the gang…

However these two pilots would be in different Corporations (for example Corp A and Corp B) at war with each other. So, in this scenario, Player 3 from Corporation A is at war with Player 4 from Corporation B. This was the kicker, as inviting player 3 from Corporation A into the gang would make everyone in the gang a valid war target for player 4 in Corporation B. However, you’d then invite player 4 from Corporation B into the gang and at that point EVERYONE is a valid war target for everyone else in the gang. The player dropping out of warp would have no chance to drop the gang before the first shot was landed, at which point the pretty faction fit mission ship was spit roasted by the one+ PVP fit boats. As a safeguard, they tended to have someone scanning ships to check fits as players undocked.

Another gripe was that the default action in response to a gang invite was the “accept” button. I nearly got caught by this as the gang invite grabs the window focus even if you are typing in a chat window. So if you don't touch type and hit return, you actually accept to join the gang :P Nasty…

People whined and spat their dummies out, and as ever CCP caved in and removed the “at war” risk of joining a gang. Now you have to put up with neutral fleet boosters etc. It was a shame as the warning was there for all to see. In reality it was the warning and invite mechanics that needed attention, not the gang membership mechanics.

So, this was how people were able to shoot gang members; as stated above, this still involved the manipulation of kill rights and didn’t happen just because you joined a gang. You had a clear warning and the option of clicking no. It is still possible now, but it’s just a lot harder and you have to rely entirely on player stupidity or ignorance rather than lack of reactions.

To answer the question directly! No it is not possible for gang members in different Corps to PVP with each other in Empire without Concorde intervention unless one of them obtains kill rights.

NN comments
mymindisglowing
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Good edit would be to provide the direct answer at the top, maybe even format it apart from the rest, then give the back history. Just a thought. :)

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5

deantwo [ Editor ]

being fleeted with someone is safe as long as you are in Hi-Sec.

but there are a few things to keep in mind:

  • higher ranked fleet members will be able to fleet warp you (try to make you warp with them)
  • higher ranked fleet members will be able to see where you are and what you are flying (with a 2 minute delay)
  • any fleet member can always warp to you as long as your in space (also if your cloaked, to with-in zero even)
  • whenever you are promoted or demoted in the fleet you can't jump or dock for 30 seconds (session change timer)
  • any fleet member can send drones to guard you (if you are cloaked you'll be decloaked cause of the drones)

these thing aren't normally bad, but it can be misused. apart from that being in a fleet with someone should be rather safe, unless you do something else that allow him to attack you.

just keep your eyes open and read the nice pop-ups before clicking "yes".

one pop-up you should watch out for when trying to loot from a wreck or jetcan, is the "are you sure you wanna steal from X" if you click yes he will be able to shoot you. and being in fleet with him, will make him be able to warp to you wherever you are in space.

NN comments
deantwo
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the question wasn’t about how it was in the old days… it’s about how it is today… so here’s my answer

rashmika
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Hi Dean. It is noit always easy to follow the order of posts, however the reason for my detailed background information was that an incorrect answer had been accepted. I felt the need to explain how it used to work. However at the end of my response, I did “answer the question directly”.

rashmika
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Hi Dean. It is noit always easy to follow the order of posts, however the reason for my detailed background information was that an incorrect answer had been accepted. I felt the need to explain how it used to work as although it is now nothing more than a historical curiosity, it should still be correct (not havin a go at Gah!). However at the end of my response, I did "answer the question directly" :-)
rashmika
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Hi Dean. The accepted answer was incorrect and opened with “You used to be able to shoot your gang mates”. It also provided evidence which as meant to back up the answer, but in fact the thread did not do this! (sorry Gah!). This was why I provided the detailed background information. I couldn’t just simply say it was incorrect and expect people to accept that without providing any evidence. I did summarise my answer with “to answer the question directly” and answer the OP.

rashmika
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Hi Dean. The accepted answer was incorrect and opened with “You used to be able to shoot your gang mates”. It also provided evidence which as meant to back up the answer, but in fact the thread did not do this! (sorry Gah!). This was why I provided the detailed background information on how it used to work as it had become relevant to my answer. I couldn’t just simply say it was incorrect and expect people to accept that without providing any evidence. I did summarise my answer with “to answer the question directly” and answer the OP.

mymindisglowing
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However, the additional information provided is very useful and relevant re: dangers of being in fleet/things to watch for.

deantwo
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well… i am not mad at people or anything ^^ i just felt like telling the dangers of being in a fleet with someone ^^

annie anomie
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OP asked “or is it safe?”. This needed to be said 100%

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-2

rook ares [ Moderator ]

When one member of a fleet performs an act of aggression or is aggressed everyone in the gang gets that same status. So technically if a fleet mate of yours attack someone, concord will swoop in and kill your mate but the person he attacked will see your whole fleet as red.

NN comments
rashmika
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Hi, this may be worded badly, but taken literally it is not correct. If someone in my fleet goes GCC, this does not result in the entire fleet being Concorded, fired at by Sentry Guns or flagged as GCC. Plus, any act of agression by a player will only result in that player alone in being flagged as hostile. There is no way a member of a gang shooting someone else results in the entuire gang being flagged for PVP. The agressor is flagged for PVP towards the target and potentially any member of the target’s Player Corproation.

rashmika
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Hi, this may be worded badly, but taken literally it is not correct. If someone in my fleet goes GCC, this does not result in the entire fleet being Concorded, fired at by Sentry Guns or flagged as GCC. Any act of aggression by a player will only result in that player alone in being flagged as hostile. There is no way a member of a gang shooting someone else results in the entire gang being flagged for PVP. The aggressor is flagged for PVP towards the target and potentially any member of the target’s Player Corporation (kill rights do not extend to fellow members of a NPC Corporation).

rashmika
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Hi, this may be worded badly, but taken literally it is not correct. If someone in my fleet goes GCC this does not result in the entire fleet being Concorded, fired at by Sentry Guns or flagged as GCC. Any act of aggression by a player will result in said player alone being flagged as hostile. There is no way a member of a gang shooting someone else results in the entire gang being flagged for PVP. Only the aggressor is flagged for PVP towards the target and potentially any member of the target’s Player Corporation (GCC in Empire notwithstanding).

ecaf ersa
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Agree with Rash – this is not correct

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