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Mixing Guns on my PvP Ship

Asked by [ Moderator ]

I've been told I should not mix different guns on the same ship. Is this a problem? And if so, why?

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4 answers

8

canhasgank [ Moderator ]

There are two schools of thought on this. A lot of players maintain the view that you should never, ever mix guns, no matter what. This tends to get drilled into the head of any new player by his more experienced (or so they think) corp mates and so the misconception spreads.

I completely agree that you should not mix artillery with autocannons, blasters with rails, pulses with beams etc. This is a bad idea because, at any given time, some of your guns will be in optimal and some will be way out of optimal. Another problem is tracking. Long range turrets track worse than close range ones do and if you're orbiting in close, none of your long range guns will hit anything. Both of these factors lead to reduced overall DPS. In PvP, especially in a 1v1 situation, this is a bad thing.

I will however claim that mixing different types of close range guns can work well. As an example different autocannon types don't differ a lot in optimal range on an unbonused ship. Sometimes you are left with a situation after fitting your lows and mids where you don't have enough grid/cpu to fit the largest type of gun but at the same time if you downgrade you are left with a lot of fitting room. In this situation you can maximize your ships DPS by mixing guns. Make sure, however, that your guns optimal and tracking are reasonably homogeneous and pick an orbiting range when engaging targets that ensures all your guns can put damage on the target effectively.

One drawback with this is that different gun types can not be stacked in the UI. This is not a huge issue, but it can be annoying.

NN comments
gah'matar
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Autocannons differ a fair bit in falloff range however. This has significant DPS implications that are badly modelled in EFT.

canhasgank
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True. Usually you would aim to orbit as near optimal as possible, though. I usually don’t mix guns myself, I just know it can work well.

gah'matar
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Actually orbiting versus approach versus keep-at-range is rather complicated. The basic rules: orbit if your tracking is better or equal, approach if your range is shorter but your tracking is worse, keep-at-range if your range is longer but tracking is worse. Of course, approach assumes you out-gank or out-tank the opponent otherwise you should run.

rui siyuan
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Presumably it would be feasible to change the ammo you were using, and thus the impact it has on op. range, as in rails, to bring two slightly different guns (when you’ve fitted them just to complete fit as CanHasGank describes) into a similar range. The only problem then being that you’re probably sacrificing HPs off one of them.

rui siyuan
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As in one longer range gun fitted with anti-matter, and a normally shorter range gun then fitted with something like uranium, which has less of an impact on op. range, for example.

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3

carver [ Editor ]

"Don't mix guns." That seems to be the second rule right after "Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose," and before "There is no safe space in EvE."

Maintain the same gun types as suggested above (auto cannons OR artillery, rails OR blasters) and I can see electron blaster mixed with neutron blaster if you have a cap. powergrid issue, for example. Also, don't take the DMG doctrine to mean you cannot mix high slots as there are excellent serviceable fits that have guns and launchers, guns and nuets, etc. Try to control your engagement range based on your fit, not the other way around.

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3

gah'matar [ Moderator ]

I strive for uniform guns. I like it because it's easy to see what's on, easy to manage (what with drones, tackle, speed, orbit/range, cap and booster/reppers) and it provides nice big alphas to break passive shield tanks. Also, there is no "maybe" range where half the weapons do nothing almost and half are hitting.

That being said, when I must break uniformity for fit, I try to get two sizes that are next to each other. Like 4x Neutron, 3x Ion blasters on a Brutix. When there are few guns, I prefer to all downgrade. I run 3x Ion on my taranis fits even though I could do 2x Ion, 1x Neutron. I might've done 2x Neutron and 1x Ion if I could however.

I never mix when alpha is the goal (no point) or if the range difference is huge (usually the case with missile launchers and long range turrets).

Sometimes on destroyers or battlecruisers, 1 gun must be downgraded on really tight fit. I find that's OK even if there's a pretty big impact on range. Like 6x 280mm and 1x 250mm arties on a thrasher.

NN comments
canhasgank
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Depends on your fit I guess, but in general you should be able to fit 7x280mm artillery on a Thrasher.

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1

rui siyuan [ Editor ]

I do tend to keep the same rails on my fits if possible, but often load up one of them with something shorter and sharper like anti-matter rounds, to take advantage of, rather than suffer, the shortened optimal range and firmer HP to quickly deal with anything that sneaks underneath my 'main' guns.

If things are starting to look tight, or very good, I've then just got to decide whether I'm prepared to wait 10secs to refill with my main ammunition, to bolster DPS.

NN comments
dave_92
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All that time you are how-ever missing out ALL of the DPS of the gun that is loaded with short range if the other ship is out of optimal/falloff.

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