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What are the various positions of the ongoing "low-sec is broken" debate?

Asked by [ Editor ]

BACKGROUND

The rhetoric getting casually thrown around is that low sec is "broken". You can find this sentiment all over both official and non-offical fora of Eve and widely discussed in blogs and etc. Unfortunately, that statement is vague and very subject to interpretation. One such interpretation, for example and though I do not happen to agree with it, is that low-sec is underpopulated.

THE QUESTION

What are the various key positions of this ongoing, dense debate throughout the greater Eve community?

IMPORTANT NOTE: I'm not looking for subjective opinions, here, that would merit turning this question into a community wiki, but to identify the actual camps that have coalesced or are coalescing in framing the debate's big issues. This calls for someone in the know to sum up the vast reading out there on the subject.

NN comments
mymindisglowing
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I gave my subjective opinion in the example I gave to qualify that I was not supporting the example implicitly through including it in my question, just fyi.

rashmika
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Interesting question. I fly in FW, and as such spend a lot of time in low sec (Black Rise) but I don’t think I’ll answer just yet :–)

mymindisglowing
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I was certainly thinking of FW among the coalescing points of view I’ve seen. From what I understand, the majority FW perspective could be condensed into something like this: “Low sec is about the borders between empires and the resulting pilot interaction. Outlaw activity, profit-making, and etc. are only ancillary concerns. Low sec therefore needs ‘X’.” I’m sure there are any number of variations to this tune, but it seems like this has been the prevalent one.

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6 answers

4

kazz [ Editor ]

Some common camps of thought on low-sec and piracy:

  • length of GCC timers too long
  • Lack of low-sec only content
  • Few ways to make good isk for someone 100% living in low-sec
  • Too easy to escape from people using the mwd/cloak trick
  • Rat bounties not much better than high-sec
  • Normal L4 missions far too risky for the reward
  • Gate/station sentries too powerful for small ships compared to larger hulls
  • Piracy as a profession - a huge issue for many people who feel it needs re-defining into something more than just ransoming passers by. For example the bounty system is largely pointless.
  • Too many capital ships in low-sec
  • Traffic - Some say too quiet, others say too many fw blobs
  • And lots of related isk v reward is too high issues

It's probably worth mentioning also that there is often a "divide" on Faction War and low-sec. A lot of old school hardcore low-sec'ers have no interest in FW and don't really consider it part of the "low-sec question".

It is a huge topic and there are plenty of for and against views on it all - CSM Mynxee started a "Make Low Sec Matter" Project to look into the low-sec question - so if you want to know more perhaps check her blog out:

http://lifeinlowsec.blogspot.com/search/label/MLSM

NN comments
mymindisglowing
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This is pretty much the answer I was looking for. It might not be everything, but it’s a lot. I think looking at the other answers here, too, is especially interesting, in how you can see some of the other primary viewpoints about “what low sec needs” coming through. Different people have such richly varying perspectives. I hope that everyone will participate in the Making Low Sec Matter project, because with so many views and if lacking a strong participation in this discussion, Low Sec could get pulled too strongly one way or the other by “partisans”. Thanks for the great answer, Kaz.

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4

jonnykefka

I don't know that there are "camps" as such, but there are a few major issues that come up a lot. The "problem with lowsec" is basically that there is relatively little motivation to live there for many players. For PvE and mining, 0.0 is more lucrative and often safer, if you are part of a sov-holding alliance. You can't have sov in lowsec (ignoring the pseudo-sov of faction warfare) and the sec hits and gate guns make NBSI at least more difficult than it is in 0.0. The only times you see people try to strictly control lowsec systems are when they're running level 5 missions (or a few specific systems that are important for other reasons, like the Rancer pipe).

Meanwhile, if you try to carebear in lowsec, you're constantly at risk of being ganked. Lowsec complexes, missions, and belts, while more lucrative than hisec, are not that much more lucrative and therefore not nearly worth the risk for anyone serious about their isk.

The FW side of things is a little out of my experience, but in short it's another issue of the rewards not matching the risk.

The major opinion about lowsec being broken boils down to "so why should I bother." Solo players and small pirate groups can be found all over lowsec, mostly looking for PvP outside of the great blob fights of 0.0 or the aggravating restrictions and expenses of hisec warfare, and that works for them but it's not exactly broad appeal. CCP is actually trying to make something unique to lowsec in Incursion, as they've stated that the Revenant BPCs will only drop from lowsec incursions, not hisec or 0.0, but it remains to be seen whether that will change anything either in-game or in people's opinions.

As a disclaimer, these are not views I subscribe to, by and large. I see lowsec as useful, generally quiet areas of space where you can get in some fun PvP or solidly profitable exploration, but that's just me.

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2

harlock [ Editor ]

I don't have much experience within the EvE universe. But usually players are driven by maths... If it's underpopulated somewhere, it's because it's more profitable somewhere else, isn't it ?

As far as low sec goes, maybe it's considered too dangerous to be wandering around as a carebear... while alliances will most likely inhabit null-sec where they can claim what they believe are their : territory and treasures !

If low sec is underpopulated, I would assume it's because it ain't rich enough as far as null sec is within your scope.

For carebears, farming in an (very very) unprotected universe is not viable, because losing one ship means something in eve.

Just my "noob" vision of course ;)

NN comments
harlock
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lol :D thanks for the upvote then ^^

upsideyourhead
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upvote for using the word ‘maths’ ;)

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1

billt

The link has many views but not all, basically the people who live in/work 'like' lowsec think it is broken in that it doesn't draw enough people there for them to exploit/grief/attack/kill/etc.

The people who don't 'like' being on the receiving end of the people who 'like' lowsec think it is 'broken' because there isn't a point to them going there if all they will experience is being the mice to other player's cat.

One side wants to force more players into their trap, another wants to 'nerf' some aspects of lowsec to give those not looking to pounce on other players a better 'chance' when/if they go there.

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1

rashmika [ Editor ]

I am a regular in low sec, specifically Black Rise as I fly in FW.

Is there anything wrong with low sec? Not if you're in FW. I've got plenty of PVP... it's great. If things end up running a kittle slow on the PVP front, well we go off for a jolly in nullsec.

Could it be improved? Yes. CCP mooted the idea of system regency. I'd love to see this implemented. In truth though, it doesn't matter what you do with low sec. You cannot do anything "safely" in low sec compared to Empire. If people want to stay in Empire, then so be it. it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Me, I don't live in low sec for rewards, I live in low sec for PVP.

TL:DR? If you want risk free ISK, stay in Empire. If you want PVP, join FW and live in low sec!

NN comments
mymindisglowing
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lol…that TL:DR is classic FW! I’m looking forward to trying it out one of these days.

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0

mymindisglowing [ Editor ]

The following link goes a long way toward answering my own question, I know, and it was, in fact, from the linked discussion that my question derives. Maybe this is as much an answer as there is, but I was hoping someone might sum it up even a little more clearly, more concisely, and lend a little more perspective on it: http://criminallowsec.ideascale.com/

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