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What range should a short-range ship sit at to camp a gate?

Asked by [ Moderator ]

A buddy got into a corp-wide kerfuffle about the range he should have been sitting at when camping a gate. He was in a stealth bomber, with a range of 50km.

His argument was that sitting on the gate gave him a 50km range all around the gate (as ships decloak somewhere off the gate, not always at a predictable range or direction) and if the ship burned back to the gate and jumped through, it was a simple matter to de-aggress and follow fairly quickly.

The opposing view was that he should have sat at 40km (ish) from the gate and manoeuvred if he had to get within range of a potential target.

Now there is rarely time to manoeuvre at all in a gate camp - if the ship isn't within range, it is gone. (If a tackler is unable to get a point or two on the target, that is.) Obviously the proper answer for camping a gate with a ship designed for DPS is to fit for long range, but his skills are leaning more towards dog-fights than big, bad, bruiser battles.

What range should he have been sitting at while camping that gate? What are the pros and cons of the range you specify?

NN comments
darinas
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It should be made clear that he wasn’t camping the gate alone. However, a fast-lock tackler could get point immediately if sitting at zero km from the gate, but chances are poor if the tackler has to move. Same for a stealth bomber, surely?

darinas
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All good answers. Matt’s answer is similar to what I mentioned to my buddy: Stay aligned to the gate and on grid, but at a warpable distance, then use the tackler as a reference point for a warp in on the ships that need DPS poured on. Since then, I also found that he was fitted with tackle gear too, so I sent the fail whale to him and pointed out a few fitting threads on battleclinic.com. ;)

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5 answers

7

matt_12 [ Editor ]

Well there is two elements to this:

First is optimum tackle, if you have more than one tackler, they should orbit the gate at 15km with everyones drones asigned to them (drones are there to get most damage on target as quick as possible not for decloak reasons as pointed out below drones can no longer decloak someone after a session change anymore), orbiting the same path at opposing ends, if theres three of you then every 120 degrees, 4 90 degrees and so on. This will give you best coverage and in all likely hood decloak ability also. Not the damage dealers issue if your camp can't point them.

Second is where to position in a close range ship. I will split this down further.

1) normal opperating proceedure. Fight in first fall off or at 0 on the gate. If your fall off encompases 15km of the gate in all directions, ie you have approx 60 - 70km range on a region gate. If you don't have the fall off your only real option is to sit at 0 just above the or below the gate, this will give you maximum coverage.

2) not to be used in combination with 1) when in 0.0 for reasons that may become apparent.

The Stealth bomber is a unique case, stay cloaked at a safe spot 200km or more above (or below) the gate. It has to be at least 200km on overview.

Set your default warp range to 35km, turn on brackets and fleet mates if you haven't already, and then wait.

  • Gate act
  • click in new target in overview, on the brackets check to see closest team mate (9/10 this will be the interceptor who calls point in comms anyhow so have them watch listed)
  • Click Warp to that fleet mate... (due to speed of stealth bomber align, and the stealth bombers 0 lock delay, this will be pretty quick)
  • while you align, activate all your modules (except your already active cloak)
  • when you hit warp speed, decloack, and as you land ctrl + click target in overview.. smile as volley leaves the tubes while your at optimal, having given less than a second or two at mosts notice.

Why do this??? it's a lot of effort and you won't get on the frigate kills.

Well reasons: a) If you do this you will always land at optimal of the target. b) As you are a stealth bomber you wouldn't do any damage on frigates with torps anyhow so all you do is being a KM whore! c) so anything bigger than a frigte, being a Stealth bomber you are fragile, while the target is being pointed and deciding just who to shoot back at, you are still cloaked! This way you are exposed for minimum time nessecary. d) 35km is pretty much right for bomb launching also.... and guess what warping to them you are pre-aligned, as long as they are not fast of course.

Now for why 200km, well gate jump of 15km, 35km for optimal, and 150km of minimum warp distance so targets will be at least 150km from you.

Me and a gang of 20 SB's often take this tack. Our wing often just unleashes fury smaller roams and they often don't know whats hit them, if you know what you are doing, you can do all the damage you need without a tackler if it's a BS while there aligning.

One last thing, you will pretty much have to nano fit your bomber in order to get those sweet align times talked about above.

It's quite a nasty tatic, and worth perfecting, however it's no good on small things, but then neither is a SB lets face it.

NN comments
matt_12
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this is true, however the drones aren’t there to decloak the target, they do serve to confuse/disorientate and intimidate, however most importantly, the second they do decloak, the ceptor points the target with his SeBo’s active, and what does pointing the target equal? an agressive act, what do drones assisting a fleet mate do at this point? Easy way to deal alot of damage quickly before eveyone manages to obtain locks!

rashmika
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Drones can no longer break someones cloak after they have jumped into a system.

matt_12
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Good spot though, didn’t really make it clear so will ammend post. :)

darinas
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I’m a bit confused. The “new name in overview” would be the target dropping gate cloak, right? Well how do you warp to him? You can only warp to fleet mates, I’m pretty sure of that.

matt_12
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Shocking!!!!!! sorry Darina wrote this all down in a hurry at work and didn’t really explain myself very well did I, I would minus 1 myself reading this back this morning… I’m shocked just how bad this is. Amended re warp to, but basically you have two options, if you have plenty of Tackle do as I’ve described above, another option if you are tackle light is to make 8 book marks, at 0 on gate at NSEW +– 45declination, I call them xxx gate 0+45, 90+45, 180+45 270+45 and 0-45, 90-45…etc. This here covers you for about 70% of occurances but is fiddly and takes practice.

matt_12
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btw, if you are wondering how I make these, turn on tactical, on the horizontal, pilot up till you are at 45 degrees above or below the gate at about 10. Flip to vertical view, alt view on the gate and use the radial lines to work out the 0, 90, 180, 270 lines. Manually fly to each direction by aligning the camera through the projected line while camera is horizontal. This takes some practice, its good manual piloting practice and if you camp a gate alot it is worth it for SB’s or Falcon pilots. Once you get used to it I can do a gate set up in 3-5 mins now.

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3

werner lucifer [ Editor ]

Upsideinyourhead wrote http://knol.google.com/k/upsideyourhead/tackling-on-large-gates-in-eve-online/2mdavnicxps8v/3# on tackling large gates in EVE. He gives a formula for the optimal stationary placement on gates for covering most of the spawns (and what % you will cover). You might find it useful for approaching your problem.

NN comments
upsideyourhead
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yay!

Thanks Werner for linking my article. Of course, being in range of that target that you want to tackle is a big part of a successful gate-camp. In the case of a stealth bomber, their job is to stay cloaked until there is a target, only decloak when you are aligned, and add DPS.

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1

annie anomie [ Editor ]

Tackle on a bomber isn't necessarily full-retard tbh.

Bombers aren't subject to a delay on locking when they decloak so they do have some utility in that role.

Also, you should have eyes on the flip of a gate you are camping so there's no reason he can't be close.

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1

harlock [ Editor ]

About his part :

His argument was that sitting on the gate gave him a 50km range all around the gate (as ships decloak somewhere off the gate, not always at a predictable range or direction) and if the ship burned back to the gate and jumped through, it was a simple matter to de-aggress and follow fairly quickly.

I ain't too sure I understood properly what you had in mind but...

If the plan is to be able to cover 50km AROUND the gate by sitting on the gate (in a bomber) then it's fail in my opinion :

  • He forgot about the "stealth" part of his ship. Stealth bombers are supposed to be cloaked. Either they are cloaked OR they are shooting something. Nothing less to expect from those babies ;)
  • Since targets jump in at 15km from the gate (in most cases), it also means he will sit uncloaked at 15km from the target... be careless and HE will be blasted to oblivion as Stealth Bomber are made out of wet toilet paper
  • Also keep in mind that since your ain't cloaked, the other guy will see you as soon as he jumps in...

Of course he can always jump back in the other system if someone is locking you, but then the bomber kinda fail at being stealth AND bombarding ;)

Orbiting 40km from the gate sound like a good plan. If the target pop on your side (understand : 40-15km) then you have time to move away while tacklers does his job. If the target is on the other side (55km), you are pretty much in range already.

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0

rashmika [ Editor ]

Well it's a bomber... if he has a 50km range and is sitting 50km off the gate, what happens when someone decloaks on the other side of the gate to him? they'll be 65km off and he won't be able to hit them without burning into range.

I agree at 40km or so off the gate so that anyone who breaks cloak on the opposite side of the gate can be fired at immediately. Of course the downside is that you're potentially going to be only 25km away from the target too.

However, you do then have the issue of Torpedo travel time to the target but that is a different topic.

NN comments
harlock
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Which doesn’t change anything, being in 3D space, wherever you stand 50 kilometers away from an object, there is always a chance a ship will pop in the direction opposite to his…

rashmika
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If he is sitting 50km off the gate, with a 50km range, he cannot hit something that decloaks on the other side of the gate, as it would then be 65km ish away.

redmage
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i would hope he’s smart enough to sit 50 above or below

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